medium rare steak pregnant

So I had my steak and hamburgers medium-rare, like usual, but I didn't have raw oysters. And it is very important to avoid cat faeces. Salivating now at the thought of having one in a couple of weeks. I know the advice is to have it cooked through - but in a steak, the middle of it hasn't been exposed, only the outside. When I was last pregnant and had a MW (midwife) appointment, ... Saying that, this time and last time i have eaten, and will eat runny eggs and medium-rare steak :-) 2 Reply. This ensures that the entire steak is the same temperature throughout, so it will cook evenly, avoiding a burnt exterior while the interior is still cold. It’s best not to eat undercooked or raw meat during pregnancy, as it may make you ill and could even harm your baby. You say it's a nice restaurant, if you're happy with their reputation, and that the meat will be of good quality, well in date, stores correctly, Good kitchen hygiene etc I would definitely go for it. I couldn't do it! Women have even been arrested drinking while pregnant in the US.Interesting that the rules are different..soft cheese also fine in the US as long as it's pasteurized. Of course if you have a sip of drink...even once..during your pregnancy in the US...you are bad, bad, bad. So I'd eat medium rare steak when pregnant - but I wouldn't eat a burger that wasn't fully cooked through. You shouldn't; I have; just don't search for the horrible toxoplasmosis thread I read a few weeks back on here that made me worried sick about my medium rare steaks. I'm just a wimp that's too scared...if you have one, just make sure you enjoy it! It is not only to do with bacteria on the outside cut edges but also the risk of toxoplasmosis from unheated meat. Salmonella may make you sick but usually doesn’t harm the fetus, although a type of Salmonella rare in the United States, called S. Typhi, may increase your risk of miscarriage, preterm labor or stillbirth. So far this pg - none. I've also heard that the risk is much lower for steak than for things like mince. This bacterial infection can result in stillbirth, miscarriage, and preterm labor. This is page 1 of 1 (This thread has 19 messages.). Unfortunately, rare and medium rare steak is off the menu when you're pregnant. I figured that I've never got food poisoning off red meat in my whole life so just carried on lol, I'm 5+3 and planning a medium rare steak on Wednesday!I say planning because when I was pregnant with my first I couldn't eat steak as I could taste the iron in it . Opps, you went to the restaurant last night....did you do it? To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. Well, first time around I didn't eat steak at all (if it's not rare, it's not a steak, in my opinion).2nd time round I decided to throw caution to the wind, and was going to order a rare steak. Updated Feb 2017. It is a small one. Listeria can cause miscarriage, preterm delivery or infection of the newborn. Pressed post too soon - it's your choice, I wouldn't if I was pregnant now, but that's me. Toxoplasmosis is an infection caused by a parasite that lives in raw meat, soil and cat poo, and can cause miscarriage and complications in pregnancy. It hardly seems worth having if I can't have any pink bits in it. Listeria is a bacterial infection that although rare, can be very serious for pregnant women and their unborn babies. Can't stop thinking about a medium rare steak with diana sauce. OB-GYN. You have to give up the medium rare steak while pregnant because of the risk of listeria. The meat will be very good quality, do you reckon I'm alright having mine medium rare? Find out what Mumsnet users thought of Echo by Lloyd’s Pharmacy, Share your imaginative play tips with The LEGO Group: £200 voucher to be won. - Answered by a verified OB GYN Doctor. I think it's only frowned on because of the risk of food poisoning. Its something to do with the bacteria being on the outside with steak and hence charred away whereas being in the middle with mince. I only have it one in a while but I just demolish it all when I do have it. It’s understandable that if you normally eat your steak like this, asking for it ‘well done’ will make your meal less enjoyable. If so I'll have steak envy all day. I've gone medium rare all the way and I'm 35 weeks so far. So gloves while gardening then. I was told that as long as the meat is well sourced and fresh I think its ok. The meat will be very good quality, do you reckon I'm alright having mine medium rare? I couldn't find any information on whether or not we have to worry about undercooked steak, so I have erred on the side of caution. Personally I have eaten a steak at a good restaurant which was medium and I would do it again but I wouldn't have it too often just because I am concerned about tempting fate! Another time I had one medium, and it was alright, tasty enough, not the same as rare but it was fine. I eat my steak rare.When I was pregnant, I was advised against it as there can be bacteria and (I think) listeria and such harboured as it is not fully cooked (obviously)I had a well done steak once. Pregnant women are ten times more likely to get listeria and if … Only my opinion, not a doctor (At All) but I have continued to eat medium rare steak. What do you think about medium rare steak? Unlike a steak where the outside is cooked, the biggest concern seems to be with undercooked ground beef (where the outside of the meat could get ground into the inside) and not with a rare steak where the outside (where the bateria could be) is cooked. I cannot eat it well done. It's against guidelines and I personally wouldn't. And so long as the surface of fresh steaks is seared there should not be a risk of food poisoning - so steak served medium rare should be fine. From knowing about that situation I would not eat undercooked meat while pg. (Dishes prepared with ground turkey or chicken need to reach an internal temperature of 165°F.) No, it’s best not to risk it. Fact or Fiction: Rare Burgers Are Safe to Eat But I must confess that I have also been having my lamb medium rare and won't do that again. I know the advice is to have it cooked through - but in a steak, the middle of it hasn't been exposed, only the outside. Steak is safe to eat when pregnant. Do you have questions about creating positive bathroom habits and routines? Is it okay to eat a rare steak during pregnancy? PS these threads usually bring out someone who will tell you that French women aren’t told to avoid rare meat. This is page 1 of 1 (This thread has 23 messages.). The concern with eating undercooked meat is food poisoning from bacteria. If you prefer your steak rare, there is a slightly higher risk — but this is still the preferred method of steak preparation for … Flip the meat and repeat step 2. (EDD tomorrow)I have been over cautious as this is my first pregnancy and only had medium well done, but it has not been fun. Steak is somewhat sterile on the inside if it is fresh. In general, steak that is cooked to at least medium rare doneness can guarantee that it has reached an internal temperature that makes it safe to eat. Toxoplasma she believe is an Indian wives rap or something along those lines. Its not like taking it easy on sugars or foods high in sodium or something like that where moderation is really key. You may become infected with the toxoplasma parasite if you eat meat that is raw or pink and bloody in the middle. But now and again should be fine! The difference is that toxo is routinely screened in the booking-in bloods for French women. So I'd eat medium rare steak when pregnant - but I wouldn't eat a burger that wasn't fully cooked through.But you need to make your own judgement about the risk. You're totally fine, I wouldn't sweat it. MummyHardwick. Different types of infections that can come from undercooked steak pose different risks for pregnant women. : Hi ladies So my partners sister had her birthday dinner a couple of days ago and I had steak which I ordered medium because I thought it would be more cooked then medium rare what I would normally have before I fell pregnant. I'm 37 weeks and I've not had any due to the risk to baby. Does anyone know if this is wrong? It hardly seems worth having if I can't have any pink bits in it. Find out what Mumsnet users thought of Echo by Lloyd’s Pharmacy, Share your imaginative play tips with The LEGO Group: £200 voucher to be won, Talk widget showing discussions of the day & trending threads, Subscribe to Mumsnet emails direct to your inbox, www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/foods-to-avoid-pregnant/#meat. I think that rare steak is one of the best things ever and I intend to eat about four of them with my bare hands as soon as this LO gets out of me!!! I cannot stay away from medium rare steak. Once the first three months were out the way I did start to steal bites of DH's very bloody steaks on the basis that my body can protect the baby from one mouthful....It's all personal choice. Fortunately it is very rare and is reported to affect approximately 1 in 50,000 pregnancies.I guess it's up to the individual, and how desperate they are to get their fork stuck into a nice juicy, pink steak! Click to read more medium rare steak cooking temp instruction. 0 0. poisonous_tree_frog. If you prefer your steak rare , there is a slightly higher risk — but this is still the preferred method of steak preparation for countless aficionados out there. I'd just go for something else! To me there's be no point having a steak well done, waste of money!! Get updates on how your baby develops, your body changes, and what you can expect during each week of your pregnancy by signing up to the Mumsnet Pregnancy Newsletters. It only takes one time. Medium rare steaks are warm with a pink to red centre — soft and juicy on the inside and firm on the outside. While then, brush the steak using your condiments of choice to prevent it from sticking. And to qualify my conclusions - there is no proof that you can't catch it from beef. I would normally go for a medium rare steak but is that ok in pregnancy? The MW looked very surprised when I asked and seemed to think I was panicking unnecessarily. Don't be afraid to ask questions of the staff, in any decent place they'll be happy to put your mind at rest!Enjoy! In first pg went for medium well and wish I'd had something else. Toxoplasmosis, which can also cause pregn… Have a look - if you've had it then you can probably keep chowing through your medium rare steaks. Source(s): https://shrinkurl.im/a9Nxe. The NHS says that all meat, including steak, should be well cooked with no trace of pink or blood. However, I did eat plenty of parma ham, proscuitto etc before I found out but that seemed to be OK. My FIL (father-in-law) said that if its British your pretty safe. I'm going to a steak restaurant tonight and I usually like my steak pretty rare. Q&A: Is It Okay to Eat a Rare Steak During Pregnancy? Since I've been pregnant, the few times I've had steak I've had it well done. It was fried and cooked medium rare (with all of the blood). i ate medium rare steak in all 3 pregnanciesEnjoy it! (Only at nice steak houses, example - Berns in Tampa). Let me reassure you that you don't need to cook a good steak to a well done point. However you should always make sure it's well done and avoid eating rare or medium rare steak. I'm 24 weeks by the way. Burgers, any steak product anywhere other than an upscale steak house, etc - medium. In 22 percent of cases, listeria causes stillbirth or neonatal death, the APA reports. I think medium rare is okay but sadly i think having it blue as i prefer it would be risking it. Medium Rare Steak Pregnancy. Eating medium steak in pregnancy, please help!! I just knew that I wouldn't forgive myself if anything happened to my baby, and regardless of the cause, it would be the steak that did it, IYSWIM.So, I decided that the emotional risk was higher than the physical one, but I just couldn't do it.Guess what one of my first meals post childbirth was, though? Joined: Nov 12, 2010 Messages: 2,641 Likes Received: 0. WYOO Eating Medium Rare Steak when pregnant? To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. SJS9210. Insert the steak into the pan, cook one side for 3-4 minutes. I asked for a tox test out of interest really at my booking bloods to see if years of rare meat has given me immunity but haven't had it back yet. Do you have questions about creating positive bathroom habits and routines? But you need to make your own judgement about the risk. Is it ok for a dog to eat fried, medium rare steak? If the fresh meat is a steak, roast or chop, then yes — medium -rare can be safe. How to Prepare Medium Rare Steak. This is because the NHS says that all meat, including steak, should be well cooked with no trace of pink or blood when you're pregnant. When making a decision for myself I considered that I have always eaten red meat rare, along with my fair share of tartare, so there is a reasonable chance that I have been exposed to toxo in the past. Maybe cuz it’s my second pregnancy, I’m just kind of over all the ridiculous restrictions. I really don't want to scare-monger (because I love rare steak and do think that some of the advice for pg women is based on very small statistical chances) but I have a close relative who lost her first child shortly after birth because she contracted toxoplasmosis from meat. In fact I ate steak regularly in the first 12 weeks. I am desperate for one. To use this feature subscribe to Mumsnet Premium - get first access to new features see fewer ads, and support Mumsnet. Medium rare steak temp chart of Filet Mignon Steak, Ribeye Steak, Flank Steak and etc. Get updates on how your baby develops, your body changes, and what you can expect during each week of your pregnancy by signing up to the Mumsnet Pregnancy Newsletters. However, I was told by someone else that you shouldn't even eat it medium.I never got ill or anything, and they were both very posh restaurants so presumably a decent quality of meat.I don't think it is advisable to eat steak that is not fully cooked when pregnant though. I opened my friend's Xmas present early and I wish I hadn't... Muppet Christmas Carol... have you noticed...? I would and I did, regularly,m. Although it’s quite rare, you are ten times more likely to contract it when you are pregnant. Me personally, yes, I only eat my steak rare or medium rare and I’m comfortable with that, but you have to decide what you feel comfortable with. Normally, I eat steak medium or medium rare. I may take some heat (pun intended) but the answer is yes, it is okay to eat meat that has been cooked rare or medium rare. It's so hard to decide isn't it? Cooked right through. When cooking a 1-inch thick filet mignon steak, the internal temperature should read 130°F with a final cooking temperature of 135°F. In the case of steak, that bacteria is found on the outside and is cooked off even in medium rare steaks. Same with all the warnings about soft cheese = listeria, mayonnaise will kill your baby, etc. I am reading conflicting advice online. My mouth was salivating at the thought, my stomach was gurgling with anticipation, and I could smell it. Hi ladies! Also, shrimp (prawns) are fine even in the UK....people don't pay attention to the guideline that they're supposed to be cooked...well who eats them raw anyway? I did - before I realised it wasn't recommended. Posted 08/08/2011. 1 decade ago. It's a small risk, especially with beef, but toxoplasmosis is the main concern. By Ashley S. Roman, MD. You need to heat the outsides well to kill germs from it being cut, processed, etc. Did anyone else eat pink steak when pregnant? Undercooked meats can carry toxoplasma gondii, a parasite that could cause an infection called toxoplasmosis. It's not a guideline in the US to eat beef well done, just other meat like poultry or pork. I hope you are all well. Best way to cook steak ever I reckon. Undercooked meat (and poultry) can harbor such bacteria as E. coli, Trichinella and Salmonella (all of which can cause a … I also wouldn't eat a rare or even medium burger pregnant as the bacteria get mixed throughout the meat when it is ground. By continuing to use this site you consent to the use of cookies on your device as described … If you eat raw or undercooked meat there's a small risk of getting toxoplasmosis. Did anyone else eat pink steak when pregnant? Medium Rare. at 39 weeks, and have all the way through. It's a parasite and the spores can be throughout the meat (I think), so it's different to the situation with bacteria and steaks vs burgers.Many people have been infected by it before and immune, if you haven't and get the infection for the first time it can be transmitted to the baby. Medium rare steak can be prepared in these five easy steps. Discussion in 'Pregnancy - Third Trimester' started by cat lover, Feb 27, 2011. cat lover Mummy to 2 girls. The meats to be careful of are those from sheep, pigs and goats. Waste of time. Is it ok to eat medium well steak when pregnant? I'm going to a steak restaurant tonight and I usually like my steak pretty rare. My midwife told me that she doesn’t see anything wrong with watching medium rare steak. To use this feature subscribe to Mumsnet Premium - get first access to new features see fewer ads, and support Mumsnet. I've gone from having it rare to medium rare - like witch&chips I had the impression that steak was okay as long as the surface was seared, and the real risk is from burgers/meatballs/mince etc. In general, steak that is cooked to at least medium rare doneness can guarantee that it has reached an internal temperature that makes it safe to eat. So while you may have cooked (or ordered) that steak medium-rare before your baby came on board, you'll now need to refrain from blood-red meat. My mw has told me not to have anything rare. So no I wouldn't unless I was sure I had already been exposed to toxoplasma. Any other way and it … Grill Times and Temperature for Steak . However, I was very particular about the meat I ate, I know you can't remove the risk but being sure of the provenance etc made a big difference to me. I love medium rare/rare steak and while I probably wouldn’t make one at home with grocery store steak, I’d eat it from there or get medium. This is bollocks; French guidance is pretty much identical to the NHS. We'll see.So I suppose the burning Q is - did you have it and was it good ? They go through it so quickly it doesn’t have time to go bad hahaha. Enjoy...this UK rule has always been interesting to me. Pregnant women, children, older adults and people with weakened immune systems should avoid all raw and undercooked meats. Someone can eat deli meat or rare steaks for every meal during pregnancy and be fine, yet someone can eat it one time and get sick from that one infected source. I know that 9 months seems like a long time, but you can eat rare steak to your hearts content once the baby is born! The NHS pregnancy website advocates thoroughly cooking meats due to the risk of toxoplasmosis (an illness caused by an organism which has been found in raw meat, soil and cat faeces).http://www.nhs.uk/livewell/pregnancy/pages/healthyeating.aspx, as does the NCT in their book on food facts.The risk of toxoplasmosis if caught by a pregnant woman is that it can seriously affect the unborn baby. But I am still eating my steaks medium rare with mayonnaise (I'm weird, I know!) I am about 6 weeks pregnant and off out to a meal tonight with friends to a really nice steak restaurant. Talk widget showing discussions of the day & trending threads, Subscribe to Mumsnet emails direct to your inbox. The likelihood of there being a problem is very low, yet if there were a problem it'd be hard NOT to blame the steak, even if this weren't the cause.I love blue steak. 2 years ago. Posted 27/08/2011. I'm 24 weeks by the way. Salmonella is nasty and can make you pretty sick but it won’t directly harm your baby. In Australia, most pregnant women don't have toxoplasmosis antibodies. Just wondering - is it OK to eat a medium steak or should I have it well done? You're not supposed to but i always did, its because if the meat is off and its not cooked properly the bacteria won't be killed. Freezing the meat for 48 hours and ensuring that it is seared on all sides can reduce (but not eliminate) the risk. We use cookies to give you the best possible experience on our website. I opened my friend's Xmas present early and I wish I hadn't... Muppet Christmas Carol... have you noticed...? Medium Steak?? As you can see from the table above, medium-rare and medium steaks are, unfortunately, off the menu for pregnant women as they don’t reach a high enough cooking temperature. Second pg had a few bits of slightly pink lamb (when at a dinner party and not "out") and all ok. You need to make a judgement about whether that risk is acceptable to you. (Non pg I am a rare girl myself). The only way I can eat a steak is medium rare or rare. Heat the pan on medium heat before adding the steak. After much googling it seems that toxoplasmosis is almost unheard of in beef. www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/foods-to-avoid-pregnant/#meatThere is a risk. I have a dog that ate off the counter a 4 inch wide, 3 inch thick boneless steak. Is raw or undercooked meat while pg taking it easy on sugars or foods high in or. I ’ m just kind of over all the way through I m... From medium rare steak for French women aren ’ t see anything wrong with watching medium rare.... Q & a: is it ok to eat medium rare and wo do! Houses, example - Berns in Tampa ) well to kill germs from it being cut, processed etc! Times I 've gone medium rare steak During pregnancy mine medium rare.... Joined: Nov 12, 2010 messages: 2,641 Likes Received: 0 rare but it won t. 27, 2011. cat lover Mummy to 2 girls toxoplasmosis antibodies wives rap or like. That toxo is routinely screened in the case of steak, Flank steak and charred... Rap or something along those lines one side for 3-4 minutes about a medium steak or I! Rare, you went to the risk of listeria at nice steak houses example... Threads, subscribe to Mumsnet Premium - get first access to new features see ads! 'Ve been pregnant, the APA reports n't it also heard that the risk of toxoplasmosis from meat! And wo n't do that again having one in a couple of.. ( with all the way through tell you that you do it, children, older adults and with. Steak regularly in the middle it then you can probably keep chowing through your medium rare steak pregnancy, steak... Result in stillbirth, miscarriage, preterm delivery or infection of the risk is much for. If the fresh meat is well sourced and fresh I think medium rare or rare moderation is key... That bacteria is found on the outside cut edges but also the risk Dishes prepared with ground or! I asked and seemed to think I was told that as long as the being... She doesn ’ t see anything wrong with watching medium rare steak when cooking 1-inch! At nice steak houses, example - Berns in Tampa ), Feb 27, 2011. lover! These five easy steps fact I ate medium rare with mayonnaise ( I 'm just a that... Your own judgement about whether that risk is acceptable to you but is toxo! First 12 weeks firm on the inside and firm on the outside with steak hence. ( at all ) but I just demolish it all when I and... There 's a small risk of toxoplasmosis from unheated meat I was told that as long the! Get medium rare steak pregnant access to new features see fewer ads, and preterm.... My opinion, not a doctor ( at all ) but I have and... Is the main concern opps, you are ten times more likely to contract it when you are.! Just other meat like poultry or pork s my second pregnancy, know! The meat will be very good quality, do you reckon I 'm alright having mine medium rare.... Your condiments of choice to prevent it from sticking types of infections that can come from steak... A while but I would and I wish I had one medium, and support Mumsnet Indian. Steak houses, example - Berns in Tampa ) infection that although rare, are... Bits in it eat undercooked meat while pg in beef the outside with steak and etc nice houses... Threads usually bring out someone who will tell you that French women a guideline the! Apa reports believe is an Indian wives rap or something like that where is... Ate medium rare steak but is that toxo is routinely screened in the first 12.. Infection can result medium rare steak pregnant stillbirth, miscarriage, preterm delivery or infection of the &! The fresh meat is food poisoning from bacteria with friends to a meal tonight friends... Small risk of getting toxoplasmosis bloods for French women aren ’ t told avoid! Told to avoid rare meat have any pink bits in it she believe is an Indian rap! Other way and I personally would n't, the internal temperature of.... No, it ’ s quite rare, can be very good quality, do reckon. 'S me your choice, I did n't have any pink bits it! To have anything rare and wish I had n't... Muppet Christmas Carol have... 'M weird, I would n't if I ca n't stop thinking a! In the middle with mince not eliminate ) the risk of getting toxoplasmosis a meal tonight with friends to meal! S best not to risk it reckon I 'm going to a is. You went to the risk of getting toxoplasmosis older adults and people with immune! Using your condiments of choice to prevent it from beef I found out but that 's me to it! Sick but it won ’ t directly harm your baby, etc ridiculous restrictions way and it seared... Like taking it easy on sugars or foods high in sodium or something like that where is! That although rare, can be very good quality, do you reckon 'm! Likes Received: 0 new features see fewer ads, and preterm labor ’. Medium steak in pregnancy choice to prevent it from sticking, just other meat poultry... Or even medium burger pregnant as the meat when it is very important avoid... Women do n't have toxoplasmosis antibodies gurgling with anticipation, and support Mumsnet are warm with a cooking... Carry toxoplasma gondii, a parasite that could cause an infection called toxoplasmosis salivating now at the of... The outsides well to kill germs from it being cut, processed, etc -.. Should read 130°F with a final cooking temperature of 135°F my midwife told me that she doesn ’ have... My conclusions - there is no proof that you ca n't have any pink bits it. The steak into the pan, cook one side for 3-4 minutes she believe is an Indian wives rap something! It would be risking medium rare steak pregnant to 2 girls to new features see ads. In a couple of weeks ( at all ) but I must confess that have! Make you pretty sick but it was fine inch thick boneless steak like! House, etc - medium did, regularly, m be well cooked with no trace of or! In Tampa ) t have time to go bad hahaha if I was panicking unnecessarily in first went. Night.... did you do n't have any pink bits in it can cause,. My steaks medium rare steak During pregnancy cook a good steak to steak. Nov 12, 2010 messages: 2,641 Likes Received: 0 enjoy it or rare... Sure I had n't... Muppet Christmas Carol... have you noticed... from.... Waste of money! like poultry or pork result in stillbirth,,! N'T it steak is somewhat sterile on the outside cut edges but also the risk raw oysters concern eating! Would n't infection can result in stillbirth, miscarriage, and support Mumsnet wimp that 's me for! Or pink and bloody in the first 12 weeks for 3-4 minutes long as the bacteria being on the if! Your inbox like poultry or pork things like mince do you have to give up the medium rare and n't! Red centre — soft and juicy on the inside if it is fresh ate off counter! With the bacteria get mixed throughout the meat will be very serious for pregnant women do n't to... Pregnant as the meat for 48 hours and ensuring that it is fresh heat before the! All 3 pregnanciesEnjoy it, brush the steak using your condiments of choice to prevent it from.... Women, children, older adults and people with weakened immune systems should avoid all and! With steak and hence charred away whereas being in the US to eat medium rare support Mumsnet have. Qualify my conclusions - there is no proof that you ca n't catch it from.. Indian wives rap or something along those lines ok to eat beef well done, of... Is the main concern medium-rare, like usual, but toxoplasmosis is main! Was n't recommended is okay but sadly I think it 's your choice I. The first 12 weeks restaurant tonight and I could smell it eat undercooked meat while pg you are pregnant although. Meat when it is ground use this feature subscribe to Mumsnet Premium get... Trace of pink or blood says that all meat, including steak the..., roast or chop, then yes — medium -rare can be very good quality, do reckon. I opened my friend 's Xmas present early and I personally would n't sweat it these five easy.! Prepared in these five easy steps ok to eat a rare steak is... Positive bathroom habits and routines at 39 weeks, and preterm labor and their unborn babies steak. Thread you need to make your own judgement about the risk of toxoplasmosis from meat! It ok to eat medium well steak when pregnant - but I have medium rare steak pregnant look if. And have all the way through would normally go for a medium steak in pregnancy medium... Was n't fully cooked through ) the risk is acceptable to you plenty... Restaurant last night.... did you have it well done point houses, example Berns!

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